Wreckers

Vexo · Post by **Vexo** » Wed 27 Sep, 2006 7:40 am

Never read the comic thing, but:

http://download.ifilm.com/qt/portal/2773266_300.mov

Holy hotness! The movie Troj should have been?

Golgolath · Post by **Golgolath** » Wed 27 Sep, 2006 8:54 am

You're not allowed to post things while I'm at work. I can't read them here..../smack

Huyio · Post by **Huyio** » Wed 27 Sep, 2006 10:56 pm

That movie looks like it will rock... hope it lives upto the trailer

H

Melodionxxx · Post by **Melodionxxx** » Thu 28 Sep, 2006 4:41 pm

"This is where we will fight, this is where they will die."

Man I can see why scriptwriters get paid so much...

I assume it's the story of King Leonidas and the stand at Thermopylae. True story that.

MeloxXx

Mazia · Post by **Mazia** » Thu 28 Sep, 2006 5:04 pm

Factually inaccurate most people are saying. But its supposed to be based on a comic book - not real events. Go figure

Vexo · Post by **Vexo** » Thu 28 Sep, 2006 8:29 pm

Yeah, based on the comic stuff. In any case, even the historical knowledge of the battle is vague. Quite a large margin of possible size of the persian army :p

Melodionxxx · Post by **Melodionxxx** » Thu 28 Sep, 2006 11:08 pm

That whole campain is one of the better documented historical campaigns. Compared to a lot, its hugely detailed especially by Herodotus. But yeah, there is exaggeration for sure.

Btw: Herodotus' book (in translation natch) is actually very readable and enjoyable. You would be surprised.

MeloxXx

Mazia · Post by **Mazia** » Fri 29 Sep, 2006 12:17 am

Melo your as worrying as Miruwin at times

Vexo · Post by **Vexo** » Fri 29 Sep, 2006 4:54 am

So Melo, who wrote those sources?

Golgolath · Post by **Golgolath** » Fri 29 Sep, 2006 5:38 am

Mmmmm, looks hot. Zack Snyder + Frank Miller = win

Melodionxxx · Post by **Melodionxxx** » Fri 29 Sep, 2006 10:55 am

Hmm, not with you Vexo. What sources? If you are asking what were Herodotus' sources, he didn't have any, he was there. He lived through this period.

MeloxXx

Thyrx · Post by **Thyrx** » Fri 29 Sep, 2006 12:49 pm

herodotus was a general in the athenian army who chronicled the first peloponesian war. he was exiled about half way through the conflict for saying politicians need to stay out of the way and just let the generals win the war. at that point most of his writings were taken from first hand accounts of soldiers. he was the father of modern history according to most high school classes because he was the first person to attempt (key in there is attempt) to write a factual non biased account of the conflict.

the battle of thermopylae was in a seperate conflict between persia and the collective governements of the greek poloponeses about 50 years prior to herodotus. while the greeks lost the battle it is important because of the time it bought the rest of greece to prepare even though they eventually lost the war as well. it is also impressive that 300 men (spartans only does not count soldiers from other armies such as the athenians) held the persian army which was estimated at anywhere from 10000 to 25000 men (yes i subscribe to the more conservative numbers, some reports have even said 250, 000.)

need to show my wife this lol some of my worthless gee wiz information was actually used. well that and my major in college was ancient history.

Melodionxxx · Post by **Melodionxxx** » Fri 29 Sep, 2006 5:46 pm

Thyrx, I think you're thinking of Thucydides, Herodotus was a traveller and pretty much man of leisure. Thucydides was a general during the Sparta/Athens war. I also thought the Greeks beat the Persians who retreated after Salamis.

I never studied classics at college, but had a good Latin teacher at school who was always giving us background history. Its all gripping stuff, Herodotus is a good old read, and much less stuffy than most folks would expect. Some of those old writers are very readable and you can forget that they lived 2000+ years ago, just normal guys. My other fave is Diogenes biogs of Greek philosophers. Those guys were REAL philosophers.

MeloxXx

Vexo · Post by **Vexo** » Fri 29 Sep, 2006 6:02 pm

I meant Melo, was it the persian or the greek side who wrote history? :p

Melodionxxx · Post by **Melodionxxx** » Fri 29 Sep, 2006 6:03 pm

Herodotus was a Greek, what u reckon?

MeloxXx

Vexo · Post by **Vexo** » Fri 29 Sep, 2006 6:07 pm

Doh... I'm trying to say:

"I'd at best think it unreliable, when it was the greeks who sought to make legend from the battle". If the Persians had written "There stood 100000 of our finest men, against 300 Spartan infidels", I'd be more compelled to think it reliable numbers.

I wrote a paper about the Spartans once I think. Wonder where that is.

Thyrx · Post by **Thyrx** » Fri 29 Sep, 2006 7:36 pm

you made me go look in my college history book, and you are right melo.

all history is written by the winner.

Melodionxxx · Post by **Melodionxxx** » Fri 29 Sep, 2006 11:21 pm

Vexo, may as well give up reading any history then. There is no such thing as an unbiased historical account. All are biased, all must be interpreted and balanced where possible with contrary accounts. Yes, the Greek account will be biased, but the generally accepted view is that the exaggeration is relatively minor, the Persian force was pretty definitely to be counted in the 100's of thousands, the Greeks could not field the fraction of that number, being such a small country. So the truth is pretty much as depicted I would believe.

Regrettably the Persians left no accounts of the battle, and I think that is very indicative of embarrassment. Had it been a victory, it would have been shouted from the rooftops. As an ignominious setback, it would have been glossed over. Indeed Xerxes is said to have buried his soldiers to hide the extent of his losses.

There is also the fact that regardless of exact numbers, a numerically grossly inferior Greek force did hold up the Persians and thereby prevented a rout. This left the Greeks free to eventually win the war.

One of the great stories of all time, and (yah i said it before) beautifully recounted by Herodotus.

MeloxXx

Angelsheart · Post by **Angelsheart** » Fri 29 Sep, 2006 11:36 pm

sometimes its better left unknown so you can enjoy the movie

ie da vinci code

Miruwin · Post by **Miruwin** » Sat 30 Sep, 2006 8:50 am

Just to put the record straight, no I'm not as worrying as Melo. For a start I only have a High School education, with a couple of TAFE courses tossed in. I did 2 years of the Biology Diploma, and a couple of 'trade' course like computer applications and electronic publishing etc. I just happen to read a lot and have done all my life (started reading around 3-4 and basically haven't stopped). I also tend to remember weird shit for some unknown reason. I am extremely poor at maths. I tend to do very well in areas that I like and very poorly in areas I don't like.

So, in effect, Melo is much more 'edificated' than I am.

curtis · Post by **curtis** » Sat 30 Sep, 2006 8:58 am

But hardly less "Worrying"

Thyrx · Post by **Thyrx** » Sat 30 Sep, 2006 1:41 pm

college was ten years ago, my brain hurts trying to remember that long ago.

there are many accounts of who had how many soldiers. i find the numbers to be a bit over exagerated. why? alexander the greats army which crushed everything before them was only 45 ish thousand soldiers, the roman legions only topped out at around 150,000 (using about 5000 per legion rome at its peak had 30 legions) so for me to believe that the persian force consisted of 2 -5 million soldiers is a bit of a big stretch for me. to believe his entire force was around 200,000 is a bit easier. 50ish thousand infantry 100,000 sailors and another 50ish thousand suport troops etc. is a little more believable.

back on topic this could be a great movie. 300 spartan soldiers (about 700 soldiers from other armies) holding off an entire army for as long as they did makes for a great story. just so long as it does not have some pansie lead actor like brad pit or colin farrel. they need people that you believe would have could have stood there.

Nyssah · Post by **Nyssah** » Sat 30 Sep, 2006 3:05 pm

I'm a huge fan of Homer's work, no, not referring to Homer Simpson here...Homer the guy who wrote The Illiad (the basis for the movie Troy) and The Odyssey. And I have to say Brad Pitt was the perfect choice for Achilles...
No, not just because he is a leading Hollywood "hunk" but because his physical appearance is basically exactly how Achilles is described in the books. I'm not denying that some random no-name actor bloke could have been as good but Brad was a good choice.
Is Brad a pretty boy? /shrug dont know, dont care tbh

But Achilles certainly was! Yes he was an excellent fighter, but his mother was Thetis, a goddess. So the standard "pretty boy" good looks were inherited from his mother, and he is constantly described in The Illiad as tanned, blonde, handsome, muscular, ie. a pretty boy

Overall I thought the movie was really well-cast, with the possible exception of Helen...

For anyone whose seen the movie and not read the book, I highly recommend it. Just make sure you skip Chapter 2...seriously, trust me. The Odyssey is an awesome book too, its the story of Odysseus' journey home after the war and is a really good adventure story. Another great book is The Aneid by Virgil, the story of Aneas of Troy who escapes the falling city with a handful of Trojans and makes his way across Europe to find a new home for them.

Thyrx · Post by **Thyrx** » Sat 30 Sep, 2006 7:55 pm

love the "mythology" literature of greece. love mythology in general. german mythology being my favorite. read the story andlook at what is happening in history at the time of the book . thoswe were some awsome discussions. (and boy was that professor easy to sidetrack lol)

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